old belgian gun makers

Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . By Alain Daubresse. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Please note! On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Christophe & Montigny The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period location, rather than a manufacturer. that we have found on this subject. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. Paypal, Order Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Any idea what it all means? Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . significance or purpose. Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Can be without star and ring. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. . Bury Jules. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Can you send me some, Ed? late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. I have not fired it. 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Boden He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Brancquaert Louis Or any info? Bernard Henri Eugne All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Hi Gerard and everyone! Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. JavaScript is disabled. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. After years of looking at and trying A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum . Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Any idea how to date it? "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs 1899-2011 Modern Guns. The Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Berleur Guillaume Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa Arendt Maurice We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Clment Walter Any info will help. Thanks Brandon. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. firearms. Home | Login | Register. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. It was mandatory post-1924. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. % I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Comblain Hubert Joseph Bertrand Antoine Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Bodson TH. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Colleye Henri Joseph Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Coquilhat Aim In addition to Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Chaineux J. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Arnold Mathias Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Serial Numbers. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Counet-Leboulle J. Comblain H. J. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia Bernard Victor & Cie SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. I know the bottom image. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. No maker's name at all. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Can anybody shed some light here? Thank y'all again! Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. We have provided you A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Bazin F.J. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C CLEMENT, J. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Clment-Neumann + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. 1870-1898. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Bauduin Charles Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Can you add any details? Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Bronne Gustave . be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Bayet Frres Charlier Ch. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Closset J.M. 1860-1870. Very long barrel. Testing the gun acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Your help is appreciated. Bernard Ernest to share our findings by this means of communication. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Andr M.J. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Order this book online and pay it through Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Bischop Pierre Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger I'll test it very cautiously. Baltus - Wilmotte As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. 1860-1870. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. Bertrand Joseph country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Collette Lopold Clment Charles Philibert A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. JavaScript is disabled. Ancion DD & Fils this location now so you can return often. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Christophe Louis %PDF-1.3 In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. weapon. Wish I could be more helpful! On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. It's complete. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. Quick Facts gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Consignment Sale Information. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Beckers G. Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842

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