sig rattler vs springfield saint
and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. Filter SIG MCX . In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. Boasting nice crisp break, the trigger also has a short reset allowing the gun to run fast. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. Sig Sauer New M400 Tread Snakebite SE 5.56 - The Armory Life The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. Top 5 Suppressor Brands - Firearms News Learn how your comment data is processed. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. A PDW is not a rifle. This is the MCX Rattler. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. The Springfield Armory SAINT Line - The Armory Life No, but it was never designed to be. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). One new winner* is announced every week! So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. | Awesome pistol by the way. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. They said nothing as short as the rattler. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. View Product. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. Its truly impressive. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Target order was dictated as a circuit of left, center, right, left, center, right, and so on. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. I got the email also Bio. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Ah, the AR-pistol. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. Thanks Bio. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. Thats as short as ARs get. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Runs great. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. What is it? I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Brand: Springfield. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. View Product. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. (CA Compliant). With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. 300 AAC Blackout. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. New! Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308 - M4Carbine.net then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Lets see if our money was well spent. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Supporter+. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . MCX-SPEAR . For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. The new 9mm suppressor can mount easily to any pistol barrel threaded x28 inches and doesn't compromise on sound suppression, gas blowback or recoil. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. So these two were on my list . [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. SIG Rattler: Why the MCX Is the Perfect 300 Blackout PDW Solution With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. I was really happy . Visually, this made them less obvious. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect.